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| re: Revisiting The Confidence Man | |
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rockfenris2005 08:04 am UTC 03/15/11 |
| In reply to: | re: Revisiting The Confidence Man - steven_stuart 12:01 am UTC 03/15/11 |
> > > I think that maybe Ray wrote the lyrics first and then Jim > > > was inspired to write melodies by the lyrics. Like with > > > Bernie Taupin and Elton John. > > > > It is my understanding that this is how it was, although I > > could be wrong. It's possible that it worked both ways. > > Btw, Jim didn't compose all of the music for "The > > Confidence Man". There is one song that features the work > > of another composer, the musical director of the original > > cabaret version. I believe Jim was depressed at the time > > because of what was happening with "Bat out of Hell" so > > the musical director wrote the music for that one song. > > Later Jim was offered the chance to write his own tune but > > he liked what the musical director had composed. > > I brought up the John/Taupin songwriting model because I > was trying to think why the music is so different from > what Jim usually writes and why Ray was unhappy that some > of the melodies were recycled. He really couldn't complain > if Jim had written the melodies first. Actually it's a little complicated. I understand that at least some of the lyrics were completed first. I'm not sure actually. All of the lyrics may have been completed first, but I know that at least some of them were, "Milady" being one example. And yet there is music in the score that was recycled from previous musical scores, e.g. "The Dream Engine" and "More than you deserve". I should write up a list but I think it would be complicated to put together. Jim seems to reuse so much of his music. ALW always gave Tim > Rice the melody. If the show bombed or was forgotten, then > I think it would be okay for ALW to use a melody in > another show, even if Tim Rice wasn't involved. He's done this many times. Some of it would shock you. Tim wrote a lyric for one of the film scores that Andrew composed in the 1970s and he reused it for "Sunset Boulevard", the title song. Andrew and Tim wrote a song for Placido Domingo called "I don't talk to strangers" (and Placido Domingo is no stranger!) and Andrew reused some of the music for none other than "All I ask of you" from "Phantom". Of course, there was "Cricket". Most of that was reused in "Aspects of Love" and "Sunset Boulevard". "Sunset Boulevard" itself has a lot of recycled music. One of the tunes was actually originally intended for a musical version of "The Little Mermaid". However, I > think it would be unreasonable for Elton John to lift the > melody for "Candle In The Wind" because he wrote the > melody as a direct result or reading Bernie Taupin's > lyrics. I think this is what happened with "New Orleans is comin' to me" from "The Confidence Man". Although I guess we have to understand that "The > Confidence Man" appeared to be dead after the 1986 > production, so why not use two of the tunes in "Tanz"? It does make sense, but I think that Jim might have reused them in "Tanz" because he only had a month to write the score? And remember, Bat 2 was YEARS in the making. I > guess that Jim might have been surprised when the 2003 CD > rekindled interest in the show and led to Smeghead's > production (and almost your Australian production). If > things go really well with "Don Claude Devious: Cannibal > Rapture", will you have another go at an Australian > production? It would have to do well to the extent that we would be able to get interest and media attention. I'd hate to make all these preparations and then nobody turns up. I'd hate to do it and then have it be completely forgotten. I would want it to be remembered and talked about. And I would want it to open new doors to the project. And quite honestly, I doubt that will happen with our musical. But, you never know... "Rocky Horror" and all that. > > > I have no idea. I've never seen the video. > > But there was a professional video release of the 1986 > production? No, there wasn't. > > > Smeghead's version did use the entire score, but not the > > entire orchestrations. It's the 2003 CD which doesn't > > contain the entire score, but what's there is pretty > > substantial (I miss the Barber's Tarantella and Melville's > > Theme.) > > Oh. Sorry. I misunderstood you. You wrote: "Queen's > College in December 1986. This was the first full > production and the only way you'll ever hear the complete > score. This is where the VHS comes from." > > I presumed that there is a CD or file of Smeghead's > production available (because you said that he did a > brilliant job). I thought you were saying that the only > way to hear the entire score is to listen to the 1986 > production. The recording was available on his website but his Steinman website is no longer online, as far as I know. That's how I heard it. > > > Apples and oranges, yes. He likes Diane Warren. I don't > > particularly like Diane Warren. He doesn't particularly > > like "The Confidence Man". Some people don't like Andrew > > Lloyd Webber. Other people don't like Stephen Sondheim. > > Some people love "The Phantom Of The Opera". Other people > > don't like "Sweeney Todd" because they think the music > > isn't all that memorable. I love both "Phantom" and > > "Sweeney" but I know more about Andrew Lloyd Webber > > musicals than I do about Sondheim. > > Some people don't like ALW? Some people like Diane Warren? > I'm amazed. Imagine if Diane Warren wrote "Starlight Express" and the big song was "I don't want to miss a thing". I'd be tied to the chair screaming "I do!! I DO!!! > > I see what you are saying. If ALW can experiment with > different styles of songwriting, then so can Jim. > Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people > out there who like some ALW musicals and not others. Not > everyone who got into "Jesus Christ Superstar" will be > able to get into "Aspects Of Love". Hee hee. Yes, that's so true. I have only ever heard the original cast recording of "Aspects" and that was ONCE, all the way through. I can't stand it. I almost fell asleep, although there were some beautiful moments like "Falling" and "Hand me the wine and the dice". Although that > is not a good comparison because both "The Confidence Man" > and "BOOH" are very very good. I can't think of any Jim score that bores me. I love all the music from "Rhinegold". It's so enjoyable to listen to, but it's a little strange in places. I wish there was a recording like "The Confidence Man" CD. > > > I've always liked "Confidence Man" and I can see why > > others don't. It's not like Jim's other music. It's not as > > epic and over the top. And it was written for a particular > > purpose, to convey the lives of these characters on a > > Mississippi Riverboat just before the American Civil War. > > I hope there will be more productions of it. BTW, I read > an old webpage ages ago and someone was saying that they > were going to do a rock opera (I presume a through-sung) > based on the "BOOH" songs. I am trying to find it again > using Google but I've had no luck. Do you know anything > about such a project? Could "BOOH" be a through-sung > musical or opera? How could you write a "BOOH" rock opera that's through-sung? What kind of story would it be? I honestly don't think you can use the songs themselves to create a story with a beginning, middle and ending. It would be a little more abstract. But I've never heard anything about this project. | |
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