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| re: Jim makes and appearance in Dublin | |
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pidunk 04:44 am UTC 06/05/07 |
| In reply to: | re: Jim makes and appearance in Dublin - Klasien 09:52 pm UTC 06/04/07 |
> I do believe Meat is trying to save face by including Jim > and his music as much as possible in this current tour, I > have been told by people who have seen various shows in > this tour that he has indeed used the clip before. This > reeks more of a return to the glory of Bat II, when I > think he used the clip in many shows as well than of > anything else? Why do you suppose, after the making of Bat2, he went and did Welcome To The Neighborhood, at all, without pushing the Bat reference, and then now, pushed the Bat reference with so much awful vibes connected with it? If the title is the thing, rather than the involvement, where does this logic come from? I have the feeling like the use of the title is exploitive, the behavior tantrumic, and the publicity is diluting Jim's authority. Why is it that Meat can't have his cake and eat it too, without adding a bat to the recipe? > > Then again, if you are doing the 3 bat albums in one tour > and are trying to be as close to the originals as you can > be, you would expect the Jim intro on You Took The Words, > now wouldn't you... So perhaps he is just doing what he > thinks does the Bat Trilogy most justice? Why did it become his mission to do the Bat Trilogy at all when it was Jim's vision? I know these questions have been asked and re-asked on this board throughout all the production time, but I think an assumption has been made somewhere wrongly that it was for him to be the ultimater of the theme? Clearly, Jim has a vision. There is no validity to the taking of Jim's visions and calling it Meat's. Dionne Warwick's name appears on no maps generally of San Jose. (reference "Do You Know The Way to San Jose" by Burt Bacharach). > > Indeed only Jim can indicate whether he takes offence in > Meat's choices here... but then again... this might indeed > renew people's interest in the original Bat album and > might turn out well for Jim in the end.. There is a double-edged sword to this set of assumptions the way that I see it. We have to assume whether or not Jim's BOOH is anything that we think it is. If Meat build's interest in BOOH on behalf of Jim, and the show Jim gives is something else, then that would serve to disappoint a large segment of audience and create negative press, which would affect ticket sales and the show's longevity. Jim stated on the blog that he is writing the book, which denotes that it is not a concert, but a show. He has also been making references to concert, so this gives the suggestion that there will be featured musical pieces in a concert style. If Jim's BOOH is seen in advance of its opening as a re-enacting of Meat's works, in the reverse imagining, then there may be precious little incentive to go to that show.....but what could Jim gain by calling a show Jim Steinman's Bat Out Of Hell, if this pitfall exists? Why would the pitfall exist, if the expectations were not being built? Hence, there is the kind of subtle message that Meat's handlers and Meat may be giving. What's the point, after all. Without Meat's emphasis, there would be a point. Jim would be clear to make it what he wants to make it, the way he wants to show what his vision of Bat Out Of Hell is to be. And, we know this does take us back to the early works, that first root of inspiration. This explains why a book would be in the writing. If Meat made an album called Tanz Der Vampire, and made it as big as Bat Out Of Hell, what would be the point of Jim's Tanz Der Vampire, if all the fans want to see Meat Loaf? Some people say this on the board...they suggest that Meat's involvement would enhance Jim's BOOH show. This is the subliminal message. Fortunately, Meat's reach may be wide with his fans, but only with his fans. Jim's reach is more diverse, more solid, because his market base is the show-going public who know of him through Tanz and other works independent of and only supplement to Meat. Jim Steinman's Bat Out Of Hell is destined to be different than anything Meat could do. Because of this, is Meat trying to angle his way into that spotlight? In the end, what Meat is giving to Jim is a gambling table. He is daring Jim to throw his dice in this marketing game of craps and see if the lucky seven comes up. I would have to call it interference, if the table is slanted toward's Meat's side; and help if it is slanted towards Jim's. The idea of the Bat Out Of Hell tour, a clear repetition of the original Bat Out Of Hell tour of 1978, came about after all the legal documents were put into the file cabinets. Meat could have just had a tour, coinciding with the album. Since we don't have Jim's book in our hands, we can't know the difference, and we can't know if Jim is thinking that the whole package of this marketing is good or bad for his interests. The thing I think is that Jim does not rely on the worldwide brand to sell the opener of his own show. He didn't need it for Tanz. Roman Polanski was not known for live stage before it, was he? . That all depends > on what other cards these men have in their hands and up > their sleeves and how they choose to play them? > > K. > still believing you can only be hurt if you allow others > to hurt you... > > > > > I'll try to minimize the blocks of text. > > > > One could think so, as it could be a natural assumption to > > make. But look back to May 5, first, when all a flurry > > came about by Meat's statements which excluded any direct > > involvement by Jim, which gave way to a barrage of rumors > > and wild speculations, and that Jim blogged to. Now, one > > could say that there is much under wraps, and that would > > be a natural state for entertainment projects especially > > ones with this many sparks flying out from it, but I also > > think of the last summer's situation which had the pair in > > that lawsuit. I will never, never, forget that lawsuit. It > > is nothing to do with forgiveness, but it is a remembrance > > of the level of trouble that has arisen over influences > > surrounding Meat. > > > > Out from that came this set of statements from Jim which > > included that Meat was not to interfere with the show and > > that it could be called BOOH so long as it was called "Jim > > Steinman's Bat Out Of Hell". Flurries of rumors flew > > anyway, about Meat being a part of the show. There are two > > kinds of rumors. Those are, the kinds that are false, and > > the kinds that are true. Unfortunately, because we are > > dealing with something which would naturally exist in > > secrecy, and which shall happen in the future, we have to > > wait to discover what kinds of rumors these rumors really > > are, even with Jim's statements. But, suppose we use the > > lawsuit as a barometer of probability and say, that those > > rumors are false. > > > > If those rumors are false, and that Meat will not have a > > hand in the show, and that Meat is bringing up Jim's name > > in his marketing ploy to appease those who wonder why on > > earth is this thing called B^A%T#3, one could package this > > up and say, that Meat is saving face. And if Meat is > > saving face, is he expensing Jim's in the process? > > > > The question is really answerable only by Jim. If Jim > > feels that the synergistic marketing is to mutual > > advantage, then so be it, one blends with the other. But > > if Jim feels that there is a larger more supremacist > > encroachment on what is apparently now being considered a > > franchise, Meat could be in contempt of the court order > > not to interfere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To promote BOOH the "music cycle" I'd say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has it been played on other of Meat's tours? Do you have a > > > > speculation as to why it is being played? > > > > > > > > | |
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