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re: Writing Credits on 'Future...'

Posted by:
Smeghead 08:58 pm UTC 06/14/07
In reply to: Writing Credits on 'Future...' - Scaramouche 07:57 pm UTC 06/14/07

You can "feel" however you want. It doesn't change the fact that Ray wrote the lyrics Jim re-wrote qand created the rhyme scheme and Ray Copyrighted it. So many people on here feel it is all right to just do whatever you want without regard to who created what. Jim created and Trademarked Bat but Meat stole it and a lot of Loafers felt that was fine because Meat helped sing the album.



> Call me synchophantic, but I’ve never agreed with the
> argument that Ray Errol Fox should have got a writing
> credit on ‘Future Aint What It Used To Be’.
>
> In regards to the actual music, Jim ‘pilfers’ from all of
> his previous projects, and obviously must feel that any
> piece, be it a riff, a chord sequence, a melody or a whole
> song, should not be ‘locked down’ to one project, and in
> many cases deserves a ‘second chance’.
>
> Other composers do it (especially in theatre), and I don’t
> think Ray should have been surprised at the music being
> used again (bearing in mind this was not a widely known
> project), unless he & Jim had an agreement to the
> contrary?
>
>
> In regards to the lyrics Jim supposedly ‘copied’, I can
> only see:
>
> 2nd verse: ‘It doesn’t matter…’
>
> Chorus: ‘...waters’, ‘...sons & daughters’, ‘...got a hold
> of me’, ‘...pulling me forward’, ‘...tears are washing
> over me’ & ‘...I’m crying...’
>
> I think we can disregard the second verse ‘contribution’,
> as no-one is likely to get a co-writing credit for that.
>
> Jim has obviously taken ‘bits’ from the chorus, but
> importantly, not whole lines or sections.
>
> These ‘bits’, have then been re-written into a totally
> different context, and I believe this is where & when the
> ‘creativity’ has happened, and in turn the credit is
> owed.
>
> If Jim had taken whole lines and/or sections, then Ray may
> have had a case for a credit, but the ‘bits’ are so
> non-specific, and read/mean something different in
> ‘Future’.
>
> Jim has created a TOTALLY different and far superior song,
> and as far as I know, Ray had no involvement whatsoever in
> helping to write ‘Future’ (disregarding the ‘lyric
> contribution’ from years earlier).
>
>
> To summarise, I feel the argument is always gonna be, how
> specific are the lyrics ‘borrowed’, and how much did they
> contribute to creating the ‘new’ song, before the lyricist
> deserves a credit?
>
> If someone writes a song called ‘Life is a sandwich, with
> nothing between it’, does Ray deserve a credit?? Maybe a
> liner note acknowledgement, but not a ‘writing’ credit?
>
> Jim has taken very small non-specific ‘bits’ from the
> chorus, and then re-written them into something so far
> removed from the ‘original’, that the credit for ‘Future’
> should always be ‘words & music by Jim Steinman’.
>
> However, having said all that, I do believe Jim has been
> ‘inspired’ by the lyrics and musical structure of New
> Orleans, and feel that it would have been appropriate for
> the Pandora’s Box liner notes to have printed a ‘thanks to
> Ray Errol Fox for lyrical inspiration on Future Aint What
> It Used To Be’ or similar credit??
>
> Hmmmm??
>
>


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Previous: Hang on a minute - Pudding 12:55 am UTC 06/16/07
Next: re: Writing Credits on 'Future...' - Scaramouche 10:36 pm UTC 06/14/07

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