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| re: Jacqueline... | |
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pidunk 09:44 pm UTC 08/22/07 |
| In reply to: | re: Jacqueline... - Bright_Eyes 09:41 am UTC 08/22/07 |
> Susan, > > This has nothing to do with your post about your name, but > just something I thought I'd throw in here since I've been > posting so much about you lately. > > The admin said that, in her opinion, you could become a > well-liked member if you did not talk so much about the > past. I disagree, I believe that you will be hated here no > matter what. I agree with you. It is not about my name, it is about some kind of influences that others' are not willing to discuss in an open manner, but they use the elements at hand to be their vehicle of consternation and complaint, and so it is not about what I post, it is that I am here at all. And by the way it is everywhere I go, everything that I do, and I've been asked by someone who has no reason to know about it, "How do you cope with so many people hating you so much?" >If I were you I would switch to being a > lurker, not because I believe you've done anything morally > wrong or offensive, but because some people in this > internet fan community have a mentality against you that > can only be compared to the mentality of war. I believe that keeping my participation to those areas which are relevant to me would be tantamount to being a lurker, but what I think you are suggesting is that I should silent myself for awhile entirely and let the posts be posted. I could certainly do that for awhile....I did for two years, and it was an interesting pyrotechnics show of ridicules. The mentality against me is indeed what can only be compared to the mentality of war, as you suggest. In real life, I have seen militaristic actions being taken against me by teams of up to eight men in combination, using cellphones and both followings of and anticipations of where I am, with creations of false conflicts, only to be hostile, and to make a detrimental effect on my life. On April 19, 2005 this was a financial nature. One man on a bus communicated by cellphone to another man at the location where I was going, describing the location I was going (where he did not himself go), and the two other men saw me and roughed verbally with me when I arrived, which brought the involvement by one of those men to bring in three others at which time two others who would have been able to help me turned and sort of disappeared, and by the end of that experience, there had been an orchestrated team of eight men. Whenever I've returned to that location, I have seen the way others looked at me and quickly left there, feeling very uneasy. This one very extreme example had rattled me greatly, that I had not been aware that so much team work went into the kinds of hostilities that bear down on me in my life. These don't happen on message boards. > > I don't think anybody should take the kind of harassment > you take here, by any communication technology. The fact > that it's on a message board makes no difference at all to > me, and if the things said to you here were said to you > face to face it would be quite a threatening and abusive > situation. This is indeed true. It makes no difference to me, either, but there is nobody on the message board being recognized as having this kind of tone against me, just like nothing ever happens of consequence to those who mistreat me in real life. I take it, because there is no other treatment I am ever given. >I don't believe the theory that the hatred > would magically vanish if you met all these people in > person, I believe some here have a very real hatred, as > more than just a message board thing. People I meet in person have their hatreds well embedded by others' influences long before they ever meet me. People know who I am, who I do not know, and I have seen people forget receipts in stores trying to rush out because they saw me behind them on line, I've seen people flush and forget what they were saying to store clerks because I suddenly showed up at the same counter, people wave to me, people say they hate me, people act and react, and respond to me, in ways that they just would not respond to an unknown anonymous stranger. I don't know these people. I don't know why they have any idea who I am, what I look like, or anything. But their clocks, so to speak, seem to stop at the sight of me. There are those who express this in a positive way. Some police officers recently smiled and waved at me from their cruiser while passing by. People say hello to me, people wish me well, and I really like it. If I can't avoid their knowing who I am, I'd prefer it much that they express either neutrality or appreciation of me. And whatever cause that appreciation may be, I'd be just as ignorant as the others' who do the hating, have for hating me. I once was walking on a street where some face-recognizable celebrities were, one was driving, one was walking, hence the person in the vehicle brought my attention to the other who was walking by saying hello to him. I saw that the person behind me was a celebrity, who was the one being addressed. The celebrity had been talking to his companion at the traffic light corner, where we were waiting for a light to change. I heard the celebrity's companion point me out, and the celebrity said, "I know". And both stopped their conversation until they were sure I was not in their proximity. It is one thing to recognize a celebrity...and it was quite another and different experience to be living a private life and be recognized by a celebrity. These things happen to me. Nobody actually says to me, using my name, hello. Nobody actually shows that they know or want to know me, but still, it is one of these things that I live with, and the surprises do surprise me. > > It's not just a few who disappoint me, it's pretty much > the whole community. Maybe not every last person, but not > just a minority either. Even the ones who don't join in > the harassment, they still sit back and watch while you > are abused and harassed. Even the ones who are known for > being the nicer people on this board don't seem to mind > the way you are treated, and they sometimes add insults. Yes, they do. I don't understand why that would be, either. > For some, the only case they can present against your > abuse is that it is a waste of time and space, as if the > abuse itself somehow doesn't count, because it's only > Susan. The "only Susan" thing is what contradicts the whole other sum of my experiences, that the word "only" is something that becomes the misnomer, and the name something that may matter to them far more than I could try to understand. >I've only seen a few make the comment that your > harassment is a bad thing in its own right. I'm more > disappointed in the normally nice ones than in anybody, > because Pudding can at least be written off as a mean > person. Yes, but Pudding has shown that he can be rational at other times, so how do you take a rational person and then excuse them for being mean, just because it serves a purpose to justify him as being mean? > > I can only think of a few here who were willing to make it > known that they were separate from the hate gang crusade, > and the admin here is one of them, and I greatly respect > her for that. This has nothing to do with ass-kissing; I > don't care what anybody here thinks of me, and I'm glad > nobody in this community knows anything substantial about > me. I also don't think my view of this situation has much > to do with compassion either. Alright then. I am glad for that as well, being as the mood of these others are so virulent. > > I remember years ago, the admin threatened to shut down > the board entirely if somebody posting as "Ryan's > Secretary" did not stop their "harassment". The "Ryan's > Secretary" posts were nothing compared to how you've been > treated and I'm disappointed Ryan got such better > treatment from even the admins. That has been the largest contradiction in terms of principles that I have seen here. Not only does the Admin defend Ryan, but everyone else here thinks that he is fine in all ways, and when they are arguing with him, it is just for play, not for earnest. The next day dawns, and people don't worry about him at all. The harrassments made against me, the damages made to me, are all in Ryan's day of play. > > If I were the admins I would probably shut down the board > entirely, perhaps only temporarily. Shutting the board for a week would probably make a point. >Maybe for a couple of > months. Two months, then. >That way we can see if Pudding can even function > without his precious internet fan message board. Back when > people were begging for you to be banned, people were > acting like their whole life was being ruined by not > having their precious message board the way they had it > before. Going a while without it existing, might help them > realize that it's not that important, and it's not worth > the crusade they launched against you. Trust me they won't > miss anything they need. People have lost sight of how > important the discussions on this board are. Agreed. > > Like I said, I don't believe you can change whether or not > they hate you. Without getting into the complexities of > what statements can be, I personally believe that your > least believed statements are something other than actual > dishonesty, and also something different from fan fantasy. > Some here would probably not even reduce their harassment > until you confessed to dishonesty of which you are not > guilty. > > For a variety of reasons, you are treated as sub-human > here. If a hate campaign like the one against you were > launched against pretty much anybody else on the board > (except maybe somebody who has admitted to not hating > you), there would be quite a lot more outcry. Indeed this is apparently true. > > The way you are treated within this internet fan community > is a major reason why I do not consider myself part of Jim > Steinman's fan community, and can honestly say I have no > desire to become a part of what it is right now. And if not for the reasons I have stated, I would have nothing to do with it either. > > If people are willing to harass you as they have only > because of what you've posted about the biography of their > 'hero songwriter', I think they might have a fan mentality > that's gone too far. Seeing this fan mentality in action > made me reevaluate whether or not I really wanted to be a > fan of anything to any great extent. I no longer describe > myself as a Jim Steinman fan, just a listener and > collector, and seeing some of what an obsessive fan > mentality does to people, not excluding myself, is a > reason why. Harassing and wishing for your death because > of something so ridiculously petty is a sort of mental > sickness in its own right. There is no other interpretation of their behavior that can be seeming reasonable under the circumstances. > > I started posting here without even the intention of > becoming a regular poster, I just had a small number of > questions about the music. I found that people were a lot > less interested in those trivial but harmless topics than > in hating you. I never planned to write posts about > another listener of Jim's music, only about the music > itself, but I just could not ignore the cruelty and double > standards I was seeing. > > So, in summary, my advice is to stop posting for two main > reasons. One is that you'll be unfairly abused pretty much > no matter what as long as you keep posting, and maybe for > a while even after that. The other is that right now, at > this moment, I don't believe the internet community > surrounding this board is something worth wanting to be a > part of. I was abused for two years after I stopped posting the last time. I find that the level of defense I make of myself is the only defense of me which nobody gets criticized for, and I do feel that if not for the ones who hate me or know of me from some unknown source, I deserve to be represented in a positive light. Can I stop posting, and let the abuses pile up? Maybe I could, but at the same time, it would mean that I would have nothing to defend. In that case, I can't defend Jim either. So, what am I to do with that at this time? If Jim Cypherd were one glad under these circumstances that these people do not know so much about him, then I may like best to reduce this pursuit. I will see how to consider this, and I will take this under advisement. There is a difference between resistance, and sub-human abuse. Best, Susan > | |
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