| re: Bat Out Of Hell Live | |
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Posted by: |
Bright_Eyes 01:02 am UTC 10/11/07 |
| In reply to: | Bat Out Of Hell Live - Mr.Egg 11:47 pm UTC 10/10/07 |
| I am procrastinating, as I am prone to do, writing a big message board post to delay my work just a bit longer. > He is making the same mistakes with Bat 3. By using > another composer (Desmond Childs) and by not involving Jim > in the project. It really comes down to what you mean by the word "involve". I've seen, on fan boards, fans who thought that Meat's last album could have sounded like a Bat album if Jim Steinman had merely visited Desmond's studio to make suggestions, or done telephone consultations. I don't think it works that way. If the Steinman sound could be achieved by having Jim make suggestions on somebody else's production, then Steinman probably would have spent the last thirty years perfecting the art of the drop-in consultation to other producer's recording sessions. Instead he has spent the last thirty years refining a complete circle of engineers, musicians and others that manages the whole recording production from beginning to end. I believe, to get the inimitable Steinman sound, having Steinman "involved" is nowhere near enough. The recording must be fully the product of the production operation that has been built around the man over the past thirty years. If you listen to what Desmond Child has said in interviews, he made efforts to get Steinman "involved", and Steinman turned them down. I'm glad Steinman refused to get "involved", because having Steinman "involved" in a Desmond Child production will still sound like a Desmond Child production. It has to be a Steinman production from the beginning, with Desmond Child hopefully not within 1000 meters, for the project to sound like Steinman. If Steinman had made the mistake of getting "involved", then his presence would have partly legitimized the fraudulent album and made it even easier for Desmond and Meat to associate their album with Jim Steinman's style and reputation. Which of course would have been even more deceptive. On top of that it's a waste of Steinman's time, because he could be working on something that is his own production, creatively and financially, and that will sound like Steinman. > Also, when Bernstein conducted anything, the sound of the > orchestra was fantastic. Unfortunately, the Melbourne > Symphony Orchestra does not sound great on this > recording. > It sounds cheesy. They should have involved Jim. I believe that a true symphony arrangement is fundamentally incompatible with the Steinman sound as we know it, and so it's natural for it to sound wrong when a symphony performs Steinman songs. There are certain instrument sounds and arrangement styles that make the Steinman sound, and it's way different from a symphony. Meat's current live band is much closer. That's why, if The Dream Engine doesn't get cancelled (as I believe it should), and if I were to become interested in it again (I really am not anymore), I would prefer it not adopt symphonic arrangements. They should build their live arrangements around what they already have and what already works for Jim's music. Which is two great piano players, a great electric guitarist, bass player, good backup vocals, and a great rock-style drummer. No need for 65 violins and twelve french horns or whatever else symphonies have. > If the product hadn't used the words 'Bat Out Of Hell' in > it's title, then I would have no right to complain. How > could I complain if the CD was called "Meat Loaf Live"? I disagree. As long as you have the song "Bat Out of Hell" in there, I think you can use that song title as the title of the concert DVD. I don't have that DVD, but I assume it has that song and probably others from the album with that title. That's good enough for me. Can't expect Meat Loaf to do concerts with songs from only one of his albums. Or two or three albums if you're counting the other albums with that title. Can't expect Meat to only perform the work of one songwriter, or to not perform any songs from his most recent album when touring. Can't expect him to leave out a recent hit single, which CHSIB was in some parts of the world. A concert DVD is usually supposed to represent what that artist's concerts are like, so the fan can re-live it at home. It's not normally supposed to be a tribute to one songwriter, even if he happens to be your hero. When Janet Jackson released a live DVD called The Velvet Rope, nobody complained that she didn't do only songs written by whoever wrote that song. Nobody complained that she didn't do only songs from the Velvet Rope album. But people might have complained had she not done the song "Velvet Rope", which she of course did include. The other thing is that, after the last Meat Loaf album, the title "Bat Out of Hell" is no longer only associated with Jim Steinman's music. It has now become a title associated with Desmond Child and Jim Steinman and Diane Warren and Nikki Sixx and a few others. Despite what Steinman might have wanted, that title is not an exclusive thing for one writer any more. It doesn't represent what it used to represent. | |
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