| re: I wanna hear the rest of that story :( | |
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Posted by: |
Leesa (gallytrotter@mchsi.com) 06:53 pm UTC 02/04/08 |
| In reply to: | re: I wanna hear the rest of that story :( - rockfenris2005 06:22 am UTC 02/04/08 |
| I can't remember saying that I thought that Jim fought alot in the studio exactly--I mean, you hear the stories of how stubborn he can be defending that pieces are laid down in what he feels to be the proper way--which makes him a passionate player, but out and out studio fighting isn't something I can remember hearing about. Karla Devito has told about the toxic, tense atmosphere during recording of 'BHG', mainly because Jim was doing it all and stressing out. The Leps' style of recording was very different than Jim's so there was just total incompatability. The 'Signs' situation had Billy (and we faithful) VERY disappointed in not landing Mutt as he was the obvious choice--at least for the style of music that Billy had previously released. I reread that 'Just Licking Them' interview after years yesterday and was taken by Jim's remarks like 'you definately know that Billy's in charge' and the like that I hadn't really noticed. Before it was like a mutual respect, but looking back now, it seems rather obvious there was territorial stand-offing. Jim said he felt that Billy pulled Jim's engineer because Billy didn't want 'to be outnumbered'--Tony Platt (who was one of MUTT'S people, NOT Billy's) was the closest to Mutt that Billy had access to, to the sound that he wanted. Billy had weak material and Jim's versions weren't exactly what any of us expected, I don't believe. Billy went with Jim because, I think, Billy's many 'yes men' for Capitol were pushing him hard to get the damned record out--the video was a disaster, Squier fought to scrap it, but was overridden. The whole situation in 1984 was terrible. Jim and Billy both put on public brave faces for the lp, but the public's response cast the final death blow to Billy's once very hot career. Billy publicly proclaimed how delighted he was with the lp, the video sucked, but the lp was his best. So to my knowledge, he never publicly aired dissatisfaction with Jim or in Jim's role as producer.Jim also had stated lines like 'Billy showed alot of faith going with me' and throughout Squier probably felt he was just screwed and had better make the best of it. One thing that I'm very curious about Ryan--what was said in 1989 by Jim about 'Signs' and the circumstance around it? Somewhere down the line I missed it--do fill me in! As for Jim's lack of more stage/theatrical moves in the 80's, in a way it's a shame Jim put so much effort into producing, recording, and the pop/rock music charts in general. He never was a 'rock act' really. He had rather freak success with Meat Loaf with the first album and that seemed to chart his whole course--trying to recapture that--career-wise, in his mind. It would be like the Lord Webber having written an lp for Meat, getting a chart-buster after much flogging o'product, then following Jim's course: having Bonnie and Celine record 'Everything's Alright' and sell 'Memory' to Air Supply! But then again, the Lord Webber didn't have Sonenberg and the like to add their expertise in everything from directing Michael Crawford and overiding him to general career suicide moves!! Instead the Lord W stuck to rock theatre. As much as I love Jim's music, most of it makes the most sense and has the most power ON STAGE. I think personally Jim would have had better overall success if he would have been less preoccupied with the headiness of getting a chart topping single. That song has been reincarnated how many times? He's plainly not a prolific writer, ESPECIALLY when it comes to break-out, stand alone rock/pop songs--Desmond Childe is. He has fewer rock sensibilities than a goose when it comes to production. Rundgred, Mutt Lange, Mack and several others do. I frankly see Jim much more like the Lord Webber and Tim Rice ( I think he's been knighted as well...) and in that vein should have followed up with an epic 'Neverland' production or the like. But Jim also needs to see what his weaknesses are and hire on people better at those things so Jim can get on with doing basically what the Lord Webber does over his productions. Even after harse criticism I fully believe, as the Lord W has stated: 'Tim Rice is out of this world; Jim Steinman is out of this universe'--he is one powerful librettist and that strength overshadows all os his weaknesses. I personally hope Jim never enters another studio in his lifetime, but if he collaborated with someone like ALW who could help with time management and move things along, great things could still happen in our lifetimes. Cheers! Leesa J > > I think you said, in one of the posts, that Jim fought a > lot in the studio? I'm intrigued by that statement. What > else do you know about that? Because what I always found > interesting was that the article you provided, on Billy, > contradicted a lot of what Jim said about the project in > 1989. I was kind'a shocked, although I guess a lot could > change in 5 years. Jim's practically praising the album in > the article you provided, then he turns around and says > all this other stuff in 1989. > > Also, a little O/T, but what I always found partially sad > was...Jim producing all these acts, occasionally passing > them a few songs, for 8 years when, when "Bad For Good" > and "Dead Ringer" came out, he was really passionate about > stage & screen. He wanted to produce "Neverland". He still > wanted to produce "Neverland" in 1994, and it took all > that time. Was Jim just procrastinating or did Hollywood > think he was crazy? In 1984, he should have made the move > from "Footloose" and "Streets Of Fire" into producing a > full-blown "movical" epic like "Neverland". It's a shame > that he didn't, and it's amazing how people can get > side-tracked. I guess the upside is that "Neverland" will > be bigger, better and more explosive and spectacular than > ever. Hopefully the film gets made in Jim's lifetime. > > > Jim told the cover story because that's what Billy was > > peddling as party line. Jim's as brilliant a salesman as > > he is composer. Jim wasn't far from 'TEOTH' success, so > > it's not like he was completely yesterday's news. I > > thought most of the breakdowns with Jim's recording came > > during 'Bad For Good' whilst Jim was doing it all. But > > just thinking about working with His Loafness would be > > enough to make me break out in shingles... > > 'Signs' is an album with 2 amazing artists with distinct > > strengths that were either going to work well together and > > compliment each other (like Meat and Jim on the first > > 'Bat'), or play up inherent weaknesses of each and just > > blow loogies. Believe me the 'Rock Me Tonight' video > > wasn't what sunk the boat here. The material was overall > > the weakest Billy had ever written/recorded, in my > > opinion. If you can get it cheap, get it as it's an > > interesting historical footnote. But it really doesn't do > > two magnificent artists justice. > > I always felt that Jim lacks as a producer, particularly > > in being devoid of virtually all rock instincts. He IS one > > of the most powerful writers the genre has ever seen, > > however--just look at Rocky Hor---nevermind, just > > KIDDING!!! That's why Rundgrend/Iovine have been > > instrumental for his production/mixing bests. > > Cheers! > > Leesa J > > > > > > > > I can see why Jim told the cover-up story (which I didn't > > > really believe anyway. Yes, recording is a very stressful > > > process, but if Jim was right about Mutt, how come > > > everyone involved in "Bat 2" didn't have SEVERAL nervous > > > breakdowns? Ask Dave Thoener about the recording! He can > > > tell you stories that will put you in shock!) Anyway... > > > The Billy Squier album is the only Steinman/CD that I > > > don't have in my collection. I've always avoided it for > > > some reason. | |
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