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| re: Mastubation debate | |
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pidunk 06:47 pm UTC 05/24/07 |
| In reply to: | re: Mastubation debate - Klasien 01:18 pm UTC 05/24/07 |
> I replied to the only part of my post that you chose to > address, namely about people in porn being forced. See below, I have cut-pasted the original reply I made to you, in which I addressed every comment you made to me and at some point addressed the point about being forced. Granted, that the specific topic of porn once gotten to beyond your comments about the thickness of my skin, included about being forced, and that was indeed the focus that I adopted. Perhaps now that this focus is past, I could re-address that portion of your comment, being as I can see it. > > I was not reffering to those watching the pictures but to > those in the pictures. Yes, I can see your point, but when you see porn of any kind, how do you know what brought the person and the photographer together? The European standards be they as they may be, in America, the sex trade often involves people doing things they don't want to do on some level, be it by no choice for making survival, or be it by an indentured relationship with someone giving them life pressures. Too, there are those who do make the choices, to be in porn, to fulfill needs other than those of their own, but how can you know which is which? In America, there is such a thing as a sex trade slavery. It sometimes happens that famous porn stars would later declare that their husbands forced them to perform the acts on camera. Otherwheres, some few but insidious and unscrupulous hotels which offer sex programming on their televisions, also have hidden and undisclosed cameras to sell images of the couples who unwittingly perform. I daresay that the kind of porn that is often seen where you are, is much different in quality and production than the porn we see where I am. And, just to be reminding of this, it is an American who brought up the topic. > I can imagine that some positions can be interesting, and > I can certainly see how some forms of pornography can > inspire people to try new things. When an adolescent, I found a magazine called "Sexology" which was not pornography as such because it did not show photos, but was purporting itself to be a sex interest and education publication, and it is where readers wrote in about their experiences, or they had staff writers with articles about various sexual topics and their permutations. There are books like that, such as the one that was famous before that called "The Joy Of Sex", which now have plentiful followers to the format, where, without photos, people can get ideas about what to try. "The Joy Of Sex" was famous for having had an entire chapter devoted to different positions, complete with line drawing diagrams. One does not need pornography to learn about ideas for sex. In addition, the porn that is shown here, does not really lend itself to any kind of intellectual exercise at all....enter, bang, leave, or, photos of genitalia or portions of acts. > However I draw the line at porn that involves torture, > pain, blood and other bodily fluids, other forms of forced > contact and porn including children. When I was seeing porn regularly, it was easy to draw these same lines, and I did, and what was fortunate for me is that the others I knew also did, therefore I was not forced into exposure to those. > Unfortunately some people can only get it up when they > know the other to be at least severely uncomfortable and I > do believe that to be a sick thing. I agree with you. > > K. > a softie at heart? I think you have potential :) > > > --->Original reply: > you are easily ruined then? From the way I react to such things, I have begun to think along those lines, as someone who has a nineteenth century set of sensibilities, but a twentieth and twenty-first century set of awareness, the combination causes for alot of deep thought. The couple who had the pornography within reach of the minor that I was, could, as you have said, landed them in jail. The source of the book found by the fourteen year old peer, could have landed in jail. It was not that the material actually damaged me directly, but it affected the people who enjoyed it more than I did, and they outnumbered me; it made me more shy of them in some ways, more hard-shelled in other ways, as I was trying to be in with the crowd. Being in with a crowd where I clearly had inconsistencies of values, is what ruined me. They sold me a set of values that included being incompassionate, that included being closed up, that included being cold. And did this begin with the exposure to pornography? Considering that one porno king was one of their friends, yes I think it did. > I could tell you things about being exposed to porn that > could litterally land people in jail, still I manage to be > loving, warm, ocmpassionate, open, confident and close to > the man I love. I even managed to have a kid... and am > looking forward to the possibility of more offspring. That's good. I had to terminate a pregnancy because I saw nothing but misery for the child, and I do not have a concrete expectation of having any, which really had nothing to do with my ability to be in relationships, because what happened was that I saw my self-defined character flaws and worked on correcting them. I re-cultivated my nature so that the "ruin" was not a permanent debility, and I have again become open to others, compassionate, caring, seeking closeness, and warm, before too much of the real damage was done. Other problems affected the structure of my life beyond these issues. > Life is not what happens to you but what you make of it. I was a big proponent of this philosophy for a very long time, until I found that there are others who seek to control other people, and when they try to control other people, and do control others, life becomes not what the controlled person makes of it, but what they could salvage from it. On principle in general terms I agree with you. > > I agree that porn is not a good thing, especially not > those types that involve forcing others into doing > whatever you want them to, but I can certainly see how the > complete stranger thing can be a big help. It is a safe > way of having sex? Because the other will never know your > need for them? Will never expect more than you are willing > to give? They are not real so they can be anything you > want them to be... There is no porn that forces you into anything, except see it. When you open the page, you can't have any say in the quality of the images you will find there. Suppose you are innocently expecting to learn something about what it looks like, and then some huge out-of-ordinary features come at your face with dirt marks all around it, or you see erections the size of lamp-posts, that give you the entirely wrong idea? Then, once you discover that there are actually human dimensions in the reality of it, seeing porn or reading porn still does not have any quality control to it. You can't control if the next paragraph isn't going to make you wonder about what point you missed about it? Where do you go wrong, what don't you have, why you can't "get it". I suppose that if I didn't care about it, it would not have mattered. But at what point does someone actually begin to perceive sex as something that is rote, without having been exposed to porn or someone else who has been influenced by an exposure to porn? No matter what, you can't create people from the images, so having sex is not being done by seeing porn, safe or otherwise, and if one acclimates to strangers maybe they will then feel apprehensive more so about becoming close with someone? --->end of original reply > > > > > because I thought you had the braincapacity to read what > > > you reply to? and to understand that I replied to your > > > reply? > > > > > > > > > Brain capacity or super-human recollection? I have to open > > another browser tab and toggle between pages if I am to be > > able to have a chance at relating what you are saying to > > what I wrote. Why it is that you want to exercibate this > > challenging communication is beyond me. If I ask you a > > question in the woods and you go to the mountaintop to > > give me an answer, how do you know I can hear you? Hmmm? > > > > | |
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