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| re: The demos of Jim singing | |
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rockfenris2005 05:24 am UTC 04/17/11 |
| In reply to: | re: The demos of Jim singing - The_wolf_with_the_red_roses 09:01 pm UTC 04/16/11 |
> Your right, it is Meats album, in the same sense its > Rory's album, and Ellen's. Fact is, Meat was just another > performer on that album taking orders and saying yes to > anything Jim or Todd said. I recall the story of when Meat > came out of "his little corner" and said that the album > should have an Motown feel, Todd retorted by sending him > back to the corner and telling him to stay that while he > and Todd sent him back to hos corner while he and Jim made > the album. Meat helped sell the album with the concerts, > and that's all fair enough, but on the album he was just > one of many performers on it that got heard the most. I think there's more to it. I do not think that Meat Loaf was just a session musician. I think Jim would have taught him those songs, but there was only so much that he was going to be able to teach. The rest had to come from Meat Loaf. And Meat Loaf's said that he was (and must still be) very much possessed by the character who sings that song. With that said, I do not believe that Meat Loaf is the only person who can really sing a Steinman song. I don't agree with that at all. There were so many other great performances, e.g. Bonnie Tyler, Fire Inc., Pandora's Box, Celine Dion, Steve Barton, Marcus Lovett etc. etc. > > Bat 3 may sold well. I thought it sold well because of the name, and once people realized it wasn't the genuine article... Of course I realize that's just a generalization but I'm sure a lot of people must have thought that. But the reception it got is arguably > the worst Meat has ever got and I think is part of the > reasons he has to appear on trash like celebrity > apprentice. It's interesting. The 80s albums never did all that well, but he never made them into anything that they're not. TMIL is not a true Bat album, and, IMHO, it's not even a good album. The Steinman fans, which occupy a good part of > his own fan base, turned on him. Leaving Hang Cool Teddy > Bear with a steep fall out of the charts. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with Jim's fans, but that's an interesting thought. But then, where were Jim's fans when "Midnight at the Lost and Found" and "Blind Before I Stop" were released? He never did anything to hurt Jim then. Indeed, as early as "Blind Before I Stop", they were talking about recording Bat 2. > > I enjoyed Teddy Bear. But it was generic sounding, > certainly in Lyrical terms, and felt like watching Meat in > a Pop Flick when he used to star in films by Orson > Welles. I had no problem with the fact that he was trying something different. I had more of a problem when he'd try to do the same thing with other songwriters like Diane Warren. I just thought the album itself wasn't all that good. If he'd tried something different and it was great, I would have enjoyed it. I've never even listened to HCTB all the way through more than once, and this is coming from someone who has listened to EVERY Meat Loaf album AT LEAST MORE THAN 50 times. > > Jim's music is special because of Jim himself. Meat, like > it or not, is inconsequential to the whole thing. Hmm, I don't believe that. I think there was something between Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman, as singer and songwriter, that we puny mortals may never be able to understand or analyze. They did brilliant things together, because Jim wrote brilliant songs, and Meat sang them brilliantly. Its > Jim's words and lyrics that bring the emotion out of a > performer, hats why people tend to rate his Steinman > collaboration far and away above his other work. I've always thought the other artists did just as well as Meat, as long as Jim was involved. They all served the song. > > Perhaps Bat shouldn't have sold as well if Jim sang it > himself, but I think there's a strong possibility that it > would have. We'll never know. But I also think it could have. > > I'm not Anti Loaf, Surfs up far surpasses the original > version in my opinion, but again, this is down to > production and arrangements which bring out the most of > the song, which in turn gets the most out of Meat. Yeah, Jim had nothing to do with the Meat Loaf version. You always have to consider that factor. > > I dont hate Meat, what I dont like is how he's credited > for Bat and its conception. Yeah, I don't like that either. I've seen copies of the album where Jim's name is nowhere on the front cover. And that's wrong. I don't like it at all. And I HATE when Meat Loaf says, "When I wrote Paradise..." NO, YOU DIDN'T, MEAT. Bat out of hell was Jim's > album with his songs and did everything on it but sing > (which he should have done anyway) now days. Meat was a > guest on the album in my opinion, who got the credit that > Jim deserves. Hoping the Musical rectifies that. > > > > . > man oh man your previous post and this one make me > want to > > scream. but its your opinion so I could care less. > > > > To me, I love bad attitude and BBIS. I rank them second > > and third only after Bat 2. To me, meat is the force > > behind BOOH. > > > > BOOH is as much Meat's album as its Jim's album. Jim wrote > > it and Meat sang it. Bat would never of worked without > > Meat. > > > > Face it, Bat 3 went platinum and was a successful album. > > would've been better with Jim's production, but Meat made > > it work without Jim. Bat 3 wouldn't of worked without > > Meat. > > > > This whole anti-loaf attitude I hate, but its an opinion > > that must be acknowledged. > > > > Meat's tried to separate himself from Jim's song style on > > HCTB and you all criticize him for it not sounding like a > > Bat record. Face it, the album imo kicks ass. and is far > > superior to any steinman album released without Meat's > > involvement. > > > > I am not anti-steinman. I just prefer Meat's work. > > > > Gotta say this though, this is a fun debate. > > > > > > > You could argue that Jim copied Meat, but that argument > > > would be very short and end with me turning with me in my > > > yet unburied grave!. Jim didn't copy another performer > > > when he went to sing his own songs, what sense does that > > > make. Its been well documented that Jim taught Meat to > > > sing his songs. I've no doubt that Meat put his own spin > > > into the performance, but the majority of it is Jim's > > > influence. Not discounting Meats efforts, its just Jim for > > > me, is better, more emotion, more conviction and I believe > > > what he's singing about 100 percent of the time. With > > > Meat, for the reasons expressed before, its only half 50 > > > percent. > > > > > > > > > | |
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